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West Ham

Postby dorsetway » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:59 pm

A bit early but with last week's defeat and Carillo not getting back from Peru until the day before the game, I was wondering what sort of changes Silva might be contemplating !
Surely Carillo won't start, so will Gray play wide and Okaka gets a chance or will we go for a 442 ?
Would be nice if Pereyra and Prodl were fit to play but I sense that Silva won't rush them back ?
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Re: West Ham

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:35 pm

On Sky and new manager's first game.

0-1 then.
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Re: West Ham

Postby PizzaNBeer » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:18 pm

dorsetway wrote:A bit early but with last week's defeat and Carillo not getting back from Peru until the day before the game, I was wondering what sort of changes Silva might be contemplating !
Surely Carillo won't start, so will Gray play wide and Okaka gets a chance or will we go for a 442 ?
Would be nice if Pereyra and Prodl were fit to play but I sense that Silva won't rush them back ?


Pereyra will play methinks. Start is there for Okaka to take, provided he works hard in training. If he doesn't start, we'll likely know.
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Re: West Ham

Postby dorsetway » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:45 pm

PizzaNBeer wrote:
dorsetway wrote:A bit early but with last week's defeat and Carillo not getting back from Peru until the day before the game, I was wondering what sort of changes Silva might be contemplating !
Surely Carillo won't start, so will Gray play wide and Okaka gets a chance or will we go for a 442 ?
Would be nice if Pereyra and Prodl were fit to play but I sense that Silva won't rush them back ?


Pereyra will play methinks. Start is there for Okaka to take, provided he works hard in training. If he doesn't start, we'll likely know.


I think for a while, until Pereyra is properly fixed, Silva should use him as an impact sub ? He adds so much to our forward play but I can't see him playing for 90 minutes (twice he has been mom only to go off after 60 minutes) so Silva needs to protect him a bit more this season.....
Surely Challobah's injury should be sorted by Xmas ? Fingers crossed !!!!
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:33 pm

Hughes is a quality player
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:01 pm

Looking decent, but you feel we're only one poorly defended set piece away from conceding
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Re: West Ham

Postby Cenobite » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:04 pm

Hughes deservedly got MOTM as he was central to a lot of very good play. Agree that our defence is a big worry though. When we are that dominant, we still have to rely on 2 top class saves from Gomes and a goal line clearance. That has to be a big worry. Britos still can't help going for those stupid lunges when he just needs to see the ball out of play. I like the guy but he isn't going to change.

I still don't see the point of Gray. He miss kicked a great chance early on which fortunately fell to Hughes and whenever he was given a through ball to run onto, he was gently pushed off the ball. I'm convinced now that he can't play down the middle. He can do a job in the wing though.
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:10 pm

Cenobite wrote:Hughes deservedly got MOTM as he was central to a lot of very good play. Agree that our defence is a big worry though. When we are that dominant, we still have to rely on 2 top class saves from Gomes and a goal line clearance. That has to be a big worry. Britos still can't help going for those stupid lunges when he just needs to see the ball out of play. I like the guy but he isn't going to change.

I still don't see the point of Gray. He miss kicked a great chance early on which fortunately fell to Hughes and whenever he was given a through ball to run onto, he was gently pushed off the ball. I'm convinced now that he can't play down the middle. He can do a job in the wing though.


I thought Gray held the ball up well again. I think you want to see the worst in him and give him little credit as a result. Still he needs to be scoring otherwise we need to find a replacement In Jan.

Hughes looked great. Very inventive, and has that knack of holding on to the ball when under pressure. Ahead of Pereyra for me at the moment until he finds his fitness.

Marvin looked quality going forward, wasn't tested defensively though. I had my doubts about him, but he can certainly play.

I agree about Britos. One thing I've noticed that I don't get is that he leads with his right foot when he tackles. He's a left footer isn't he?
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Re: West Ham

Postby WFC4ever » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:20 pm

Excellent win and generally very good performance.

Broke with pace and some great passing - Hughes and Doucourae outstanding.

Gomes did wonders when called upon.

Some highlights here:

http://hoofoot.com/?match=Watford_2_-_0 ... 2017_11_19
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Re: West Ham

Postby Cenobite » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:03 pm

pog88 wrote:
Cenobite wrote:Hughes deservedly got MOTM as he was central to a lot of very good play. Agree that our defence is a big worry though. When we are that dominant, we still have to rely on 2 top class saves from Gomes and a goal line clearance. That has to be a big worry. Britos still can't help going for those stupid lunges when he just needs to see the ball out of play. I like the guy but he isn't going to change.

I still don't see the point of Gray. He miss kicked a great chance early on which fortunately fell to Hughes and whenever he was given a through ball to run onto, he was gently pushed off the ball. I'm convinced now that he can't play down the middle. He can do a job in the wing though.


I thought Gray held the ball up well again. I think you want to see the worst in him and give him little credit as a result. Still he needs to be scoring otherwise we need to find a replacement In Jan.

Hughes looked great. Very inventive, and has that knack of holding on to the ball when under pressure. Ahead of Pereyra for me at the moment until he finds his fitness.

Marvin looked quality going forward, wasn't tested defensively though. I had my doubts about him, but he can certainly play.

I agree about Britos. One thing I've noticed that I don't get is that he leads with his right foot when he tackles. He's a left footer isn't he?


I know we disagree on Gray but the simple fact is that he doesn't even look like scoring. I don't remember him even forcing a save from a keeper all season. He seems to be at his best when he pulls out wide and has space to run into. Then he can get behind the defence and get a decent cross over. Unfortunately that means there is noone in the middle to aim at unless Richarlison can get in the middle in time. He certainly isn't going to be scoring the double digits you need from a striker. And again Okaka sits on the bench.
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:33 pm

If he was missing chances then I would be a lot more critical, but the way we are playing it seems like all the emphasis is on getting it to the wide players to cut inside and shoot. He isn't the main focal point of the attacks, he's merely there to act as a decoy runner so others have space.

I notice it a lot with him that he makes runs, looking for the early ball, only for it to be played out wide instead. I think that's how Silva wants to play, and you can't argue as it's producing goals.

I honestly think you'd find it hard to get a striker that would score goals consistently in the system we play. Rich is a fantastic player, but he's not one to play somebody in when there's any chance he'll score.

As for Okaka, he's gone unless Silva goes. Carrillo coming on at the end showed there is no hope for him
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Re: West Ham

Postby Cenobite » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:48 pm

You don't pay the best part of 20m quid for a decoy runner. Look at his stats. 16 shots and only hit the target twice. 9 goals last season and 2 of those from the penalty spot. He's not a striker and he's not good value for money. I'm sure we'll be looking for a striker in Jan.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9060/Andre-Gray/stats?co=1&se=54
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Re: West Ham

Postby dorsetway » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:09 am

The last 30 minutes were sublime at times and I was proud of the players with the pressure of 3 defeats behind them and all the Silva rumours abound, HOWEVER realistically we were only two ridiculously brilliant saves by Gomes away from a 2-2 draw and that should never have been.
My thoughts:-
- We are flaky at the back but we have Prodl / Kaboul available soon so things should improve there ?
- Britos scares me at times, his tackling/ passing / crossing are awful at times, better second half after a clear rollicking, but he has to try and keep it more simple coz he is pants when he tries stuff.
- Hughes ability with the ball was great to watch, his first touch is sublime and he was pinging first touch passes in all directions all around their box and made loads of openings !
- Well done Zeeglar !
- Gomes - what you say !!
- We should have won 5-2 today but they defended quite deep second half and we did try hard to get through today - so much better than v Stoke ?
- Doucoure / Cleverly / Hughes - great midfield and Pererya now back is good news. They ran their legs off today and won so many loose balls.
- Femenia great and works well with Hughes !
- I can't complain about Gray. Rich was playing wide left so Gray was pretty much alone through the middle and he didn't half graft today. He makes room for the others.
- So pleased we didn't throw it away - great way to finish the game and WH looked completely out of their depth by the end.
- Carroll is an animal !!
- Now need to sort out the Silva issue, but this squad would be decent under any experienced manager (except Allardyce ??)
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:31 am

Cenobite wrote:You don't pay the best part of 20m quid for a decoy runner. Look at his stats. 16 shots and only hit the target twice. 9 goals last season and 2 of those from the penalty spot. He's not a striker and he's not good value for money. I'm sure we'll be looking for a striker in Jan.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9060/Andre-Gray/stats?co=1&se=54
w

We didn't pay £20m for him, it was more like £13m. The going rate for any average British player. You are still unable to grasp that transfer fees have no correlation with value these days.

I think if he's judged as a target man, then he's doing OK. He setup Hughes yesterday, and has played a big part in a lot of our goals so far

His weakness, like Deeney is that he's crap in the air, so I would imagine we'll look to bring in somebody who can actually head the ball in January
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Re: West Ham

Postby Cenobite » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:53 am

I appreciate we see things very differently but you're very generous to say he set up Hughes! There was me thinking he fluffed yet another shooting opportunity but all along it was just a cunningly disguised and utterly selfless pass to a teammate!
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Re: West Ham

Postby pog88 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:02 am

Cenobite wrote:I appreciate we see things very differently but you're very generous to say he set up Hughes! There was me thinking he fluffed yet another shooting opportunity but all along it was just a cunningly disguised and utterly selfless pass to a teammate!


Obviously didn't pass it intentionally, but no denying his great bit of play created the goal
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