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Spurs..

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Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:19 am

New ground - change in fortunes ?
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Re: Spurs..

Postby BeersThen » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:26 pm

N'ah. 3-0
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm

As decent as Spurs are, esp on their day, I think they are not as hard to get points from as you'd expect, esp this season. Last year I said that Son was the key, but right now they are vulnerable. If Flores has used the last fortnight we'll and we can keep it tight, then a draw is possible.... But I won't hold my breath...
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:23 pm

Capoue and Prodl still out and don't expect Deeney back anytime soon .

https://www.watfordfc.com/teams/first-t ... -hotspur-3
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Re: Spurs..

Postby BeersThen » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:52 pm

Capoue and the old mystery 'back problem'. I can sniff a falling out....
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:06 pm

Sure it's time to use Challobah esp with Capoue missing.? I really don't understand why Dele-B and Quina don't get any cameo appearances, it's not like our midfield have looked decent this season and those two would have bags of energy.
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:51 pm

BeersThen wrote:Capoue and the old mystery 'back problem'. I can sniff a falling out....


DId he play much last time Flores was here?

I remember we had Watson and the Swiss guy in the team.

Apparently Capoue is like a father to Sarr - maybe he asked why the latter didn't play much !
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:51 pm

If honest today is a bit of a free hit so I want to see some further improvement, so that if we lose 2.0 but play well, then we have something to take into the next, very important game. Lose badly today and the spirit will be shot and Bmth will outplay and beat us...
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Re: Spurs..

Postby BeersThen » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:36 pm

Better. More fight, determination.
Then Femenia and VAR come along and spoil it.
I genuinely cannot see the point in VAR if it's not going to correct 'the right decision'.

Muff is massive.
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:39 pm

Would have taken a point before the game but were so close to 3 and denied a penalty..

So a sense of frustration.

Very organised and solid performance with Doucoure outstanding alongside Chalobah .

Shame to see Welbeck get injured but the front 2 did well.

Defence looked very comfortable- the one mistake cost us though.

Positive day - need to get a few wins now .
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:39 pm

I want to hear a full explanation as to how the penalty (GD) and their goal were finally judged.... Who over-rode who..? As clear a pen as you will see and the ball was clearly controlled by Ali's arm, so who exactly declared that upper arm is now considered part of your shoulder.?
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:46 pm

Basically it's all down to the VAR officials and not one penalty decision has been overturned this season. !

They only seem to apply it for offsides.

Presume the assistants aren't mates with the refs !

How strange - Man U at home .

They get a goal after a clear foul and then Liverpool get a goal rightly ruled out after a handball ..
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Re: Spurs..

Postby BeersThen » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:46 am

The Alli arm handball is 50/50 for me, as much as I'd like to say it isn't. Can't stand the bloke.
But the GD non-penalty is disgraceful.
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:46 am

Yes - probably the sort that doesn't get given when the home team is goal down with 5 minutes to go !
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Re: Spurs..

Postby Inayellowshirt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:16 pm

BeersThen wrote:The Alli arm handball is 50/50 for me, as much as I'd like to say it isn't. Can't stand the bloke.
But the GD non-penalty is disgraceful.


agreed on that
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:31 pm

Trouble is the inconsistency... That used to be just a Ref issue whereas now you also have to expand that to "also depends who the VAR is on the day, so basically now double trouble rather than the solution it was meant to be.!
I have always said that the ref should make all decisions except ball over the line, and then each team has say 3 calls per game to ask for a VAR check. Much easier except VAR will always prefer to back the refs so the underlying problems will never go away....
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Re: Spurs..

Postby PizzaNBeer » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:38 pm

I've never really been bothered by the delay of VAR. The game is delayed far, far more by players surrounding the ref, flailing about with faux injuries and otherwise trying to officiate the games themselves.
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:08 pm

PizzaNBeer wrote:I've never really been bothered by the delay of VAR. The game is delayed far, far more by players surrounding the ref, flailing about with faux injuries and otherwise trying to officiate the games themselves.


Agree, my point wasn't really about delays caused by VAR but the fact they rarely correct the refs decisions. Hence I would prefer to go back to as before BUT give each team a set max nbr of reviews per game. They need to talk to the Rugby bods who are light years ahead of football when it comes to vat and "sensible/open" refereeing.
Everything in football is about punishment, ban players, teach them a lesson etc, and ruin games for the spectator. It's all about drawing fouls, getting players sent off, and a game is ruined for half the spectators every time there's a sending off...
Sorry rant over.... Its tough supporting the bottom team...
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Re: Spurs..

Postby PizzaNBeer » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:44 pm

dorsetway wrote:
PizzaNBeer wrote:I've never really been bothered by the delay of VAR. The game is delayed far, far more by players surrounding the ref, flailing about with faux injuries and otherwise trying to officiate the games themselves.


Agree, my point wasn't really about delays caused by VAR but the fact they rarely correct the refs decisions. Hence I would prefer to go back to as before BUT give each team a set max nbr of reviews per game. They need to talk to the Rugby bods who are light years ahead of football when it comes to vat and "sensible/open" refereeing.
Everything in football is about punishment, ban players, teach them a lesson etc, and ruin games for the spectator. It's all about drawing fouls, getting players sent off, and a game is ruined for half the spectators every time there's a sending off...
Sorry rant over.... Its tough supporting the bottom team...


There are a lot of models that work, most of them from America.

1) In "football":
a) All scoring plays are reviewed
b) For certain types of plays (catch or no catch, the spotting of the ball, etc.) they have a set number of "challenges" like you state. The advantage they have is that if they lose the challenge, is costs them a time out - which are very valuable
c) The referees on the pitch go :under the hood" and review things
d) there are strict time guidelines for reviews

2) In football/soccer
a) All scoring plays are reviewed.
b) they've implemented the "FIFA offside non-call" approach
c) the referee goes over to the VAR screen if a play is close
Note: I'm 99% certain that MLS is where the whole "rectangle pantomime" for VAR review started.
MLS's implementation of VAR works just fine, because the object is to get calls right. There's still controversy, but the calls are righter than not.

3) Basketball.
a) The refs walk right over to the scorer's table and have a look. (Of course the small court size makes this easy)

4) Hockey
a) Goal technology makes goal calls
b) Video review of goals as well

5) Baseball
a) Teams get a set number of challenges. They typically have a person looking at the video review in the stadium press box who is on the phone to the manager. The call is made by a team of umpires (the officials) back in the central office/ No on-field review available for the umpires.

Of course, some of these sports are aided by the fact that play stops regularly anyway. The salient difference in all of them is that the focus is where it needs to be.Getting the call right quickly. In the EPL it's on salving people's egos and protecting officials from on-pitch harassment. The EPL should have just forklifted the MLS approach. It's proven and works fine. They could have spent the rest of their budget on educating the refs on who, what, why.
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Re: Spurs..

Postby dorsetway » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:27 pm

Interesting to see that info from the USA. There's just something about the FA / EPL that reeks of old blazers and shear arrogance, rather than a quest to improve on pitch decisions, and I guess there's also a steak that runs thru the referee committee where the main focus is on referees wellbeing rather than "the game".?
For me, if it wasn't for WFC I wouldn't bother to watch any football anymore, I now prefer rugby over man utd vs spurs..... Yawn....
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Re: Spurs..

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:31 am

They don't want to use the screens it seems as they claim it would take too long and players/managers would put pressure on officials .

Well book such people for dissent and have the communication heard so people can understand the decision process .

Clearly they have been told not to overrule the on pitch ref or the VAR guy just doesn't want to ?

But they seem happy to fuss about a minor offside ..
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