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Burnley game

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Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:40 pm

Saw the end of the City/Burnley game and after seeing the 5-0 scoreline I then saw the news that Burnley couldn't put out their full quoto of subs. Five players refusing to extend their old contracts as they aren't being offered proper extensions past July.!!
This is one of our big games, one we can't usually expect much from, but in the current situation it's a good time to be playing them.!!
(Bournemouth fans also beside themselves, many thinking they are definitely going down.
We have a fighting chance if the squad keeps focused...
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Re: Burnley game

Postby WFC4ever » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:13 am

2 best strikers out too.

We aren't Man City ofcouse but as you say Burnley are mid table and have minds elsewhere.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby BeersThen » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:55 am

I was thinking during lockdown there would be one or two teams that would down tools, not care and lose all remaining games, I actually thought it might be Palace. Hoping it's Burnley, sounds like a lot going on behind the scenes (that banner wouldn't have helped either).
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Re: Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:50 pm

NP needs to install a "cup final" mentality for this game especially. Its now very winnable, their heads are all over the place, 8 men down - we have to win this one to give us an edge for the run in.!
The Southampton game will be tough so a draw might be an OK outcome but let's get 3 points at Burnley.... Forget Man City but one win and 7 draws might be enough... Just need a win on the board soon....
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Re: Burnley game

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:49 am

No Wood or Barnes which is handy but they will still have a strong defence - I mean can you sake much from a game at Man City.

They have lost 5-0 there on the last 4 occasions!

Good results today - annoying Villa got a late equaliser but that is Newcastle for you!

Need to take our chances and keep it tight at the back - the crowd might not be there but you can bet Dyche will be on the back of the officials.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:47 pm

It's going to be really hot... I would have deeney and gray up top first half to soften them up, then unleash Sarr and Welbeck on them second half when they're flagging....
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Re: Burnley game

Postby PizzaNBeer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 pm

dorsetway wrote:It's going to be really hot... I would have deeney and gray up top first half to soften them up, then unleash Sarr and Welbeck on them second half when they're flagging....


I'd be inclined to start Sarr - and swap Welbeck for Pereyra as a starter. Keep Gray for a late on sub. Gray is pretty much a straight line player. He would have a better chance when they are tired. If Sarr tires I'd have someone pacy and creative to bring on - either Pussetto or perhaps Quina. Having a player like Penaranda available for a few minutes of left wing play is appealing as well.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby PizzaNBeer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:10 pm

Dire.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby BeersThen » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:42 pm

Dreadful result and pretty awful performance. Right back in it.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:50 pm

I cant believe I just watched that dross.!
They were much sharper than us a pinged the ball about nicely. Apart from a decent 20 minutes second half I thought we looked like we had come straight to the match from the beach.!
There is a definite pattern though, we bang lots of aimless crosses into the box but we really don't look much like scoring from open play.!!
We beat Liverpool but then lost at a defensive Palace.... I worry that we can only win games where we get chance to play on the break with Sarr. Today he had no supply and it was All long balls banged to deeney.
I am horrified....
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Re: Burnley game

Postby PizzaNBeer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:02 pm

dorsetway wrote:I cant believe I just watched that dross.!
They were much sharper than us a pinged the ball about nicely. Apart from a decent 20 minutes second half I thought we looked like we had come straight to the match from the beach.!
There is a definite pattern though, we bang lots of aimless crosses into the box but we really don't look much like scoring from open play.!!
We beat Liverpool but then lost at a defensive Palace.... I worry that we can only win games where we get chance to play on the break with Sarr. Today he had no supply and it was All long balls banged to deeney.
I am horrified....


This has been pointed out by pundits as well. We play better against teams that play more open football. Not sure what the answer is, but we need some way to break down a bunkered in defence.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby WFC4ever » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:05 pm

Poor show on our part .

No pace and and slow in midfield.

Didn't test Pope and Burnley got the goal with a good cross and we made too easy.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:21 am

WFC4ever wrote:Poor show on our part .

No pace and and slow in midfield.

Didn't test Pope and Burnley got the goal with a good cross and we made too easy.


Yep, and Burnley looked like scoring every time they crossed the ball.! I know it was hot etc but Burnley played only three days before and yet they had energy. NP has his work cut out but midfield scared me yesterday... Capoue looked very leggy, cleverly a bit of a headless chicken, Welbeck just wandered about like a lazy striker, we were a total shambles first half. He has to sort midfield out bring in the younger legs....
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Re: Burnley game

Postby PizzaNBeer » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:08 pm

dorsetway wrote:
He has to sort midfield out bring in the younger legs....


This could certainly be part of the answer. Aside from heavy-looking legs, there have been two other problems. First, poor touches. One hopes this improves now that people have a couple of games under their belts. Confidence is also often a factor. Second, poor service. I noticed that many time Sarr has beaten his marker, only to deliver an Amrabatesque cross. This also should improve. The other issue is that not many others are getting cross in at all.

There are 3 ways (in general) to beat a bunkered defence:
1) Negative balls from the end line. You can either do this like Sarr - bursting past them and attacking the end line, or more like Deulofeu would - having the ball at your feet and beating them over a short distance off of the dribble. Younger quicker blokes might help here, but the have to have their touch and not be complete liabilities defensively. As we don't have a blazing winger for the left side, we need to sort something out in the Deulofeu mode for this to work.
2) Shots from distance and pouncing on the inevitable rebounds. So this means Capoue and Doucoure firing cannon shots and goal poachers to pick up the remains. Not sure that we have the poachers - especially with Hughes playing deeper (where I really like him BTW).
3) Fast ball movement highlighted by passes that bypass the first defender. Bunkered teams count on the fact that they can shift their defenders faster than you can pass the ball round the outside. They key is to hit longer passes that move the ball faster than they can shift, then cut into the gaps. I don't know that we have the quality for this. A side that contained Pereyra, Pedro and Penaranda might - but that's terrifying on a lot of levels. We could lose matches 6-3.

Given that we need to be realistic, I think the answer is probably more in the vein of:
1) Aggressive overlaps from Femenia. His crosses are also inconsistent, but aside from Sarr he's teh fastest player on the team. If Sarr is getting blanketed, he need to cut inside and have Femenia stampede forward.

Unfortunately, this still doesn't solve the lack of balance. Teams know we have little credible threat down the left.

2) Use the extra subs to take some gambles on the left if we need goals late. Pull Masina (who I also rate highly) and replace him with Holebas (who is better going forward - but nothing else). Also, pull whoever we have up top on the left (let's say it's been Pereyra) and replace them with a skilled pacy left sided player (Penaranda?, Quina?, Pedro (although I think he's more right side)).

3) Fresh legs late at forward. Welbeck or perhaps Pedro for Deeney. Give tired defenders someone that they have to chase.

Other subs should be used for truly exhausted players (e.g. Pussetto for Sarr, Chalobah into midfield somewhere, etc.).

It also might be worth a go starting Chalobah for Capoue if Capoue is truly leggy. Chalobah is a better passer and if he gives a solid 45-60 minutes, then a fresh Capoue in the second half might be a difference maker.

If we wanted to go completely insane we could go 3-5-2 with Deeney and Sarr up top and Holebas and Femenia as wingers. That has proven to be disastrous against teams with pace, however. Chelski for example I think would rip us to shreds with diagonal balls if we tried that. But long balls to Deeney with Sarr alongside and the likes of Femenia overlapping has some potential. I'm not brave enough to try it unless we're desperate through.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby WFC4ever » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:04 pm

What does concern me is how fit we are playing in this weather ?

I mean ok against Leicester we got back into the game but we were pretty much under pressure from about 75 minutes.

And we never really got going at all on Thursday.

I think some do care and want to do well but the likes of Deeney and Cleverly aren't really fully match fit.
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Re: Burnley game

Postby dorsetway » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:39 pm

I was thinking about the last game and so much was wrong that NP needs to resolve...
- Femenia is classy with the ball but he is never a full back, always caught out of position etc and leaves huge holes. His main cover is Sarr who is a winger.
- Massina much improved but to do this he has had to curtail his forays. We miss holebas for his deliveries from the left.
- Massina's cover in front has been Welbeck or Pereyra... Both defensively rubbish on the left in a 4231 shape.
- playing too many long high balls to deeney all game long.... Plus when Sarr does charge forward everyone else is having a breather.

Our 4231 works well with the 11 players that beat liverpool but when we try to switch players it just falls apart... NP needs to find a style that suits the squad and just play the players that get it. How many of us baulked when Cleverly and Wellbeck waltzed onto the pitch, being shoe horned into our 4231 on Thursday, and it was shambolic.
Fingers crossed we improve..
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Re: Burnley game

Postby PizzaNBeer » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:06 am

dorsetway wrote:I was thinking about the last game and so much was wrong that NP needs to resolve...
- Femenia is classy with the ball but he is never a full back, always caught out of position etc and leaves huge holes. His main cover is Sarr who is a winger.
- Massina much improved but to do this he has had to curtail his forays. We miss holebas for his deliveries from the left.
- Massina's cover in front has been Welbeck or Pereyra... Both defensively rubbish on the left in a 4231 shape.
- playing too many long high balls to deeney all game long.... Plus when Sarr does charge forward everyone else is having a breather.

Our 4231 works well with the 11 players that beat liverpool but when we try to switch players it just falls apart... NP needs to find a style that suits the squad and just play the players that get it. How many of us baulked when Cleverly and Wellbeck waltzed onto the pitch, being shoe horned into our 4231 on Thursday, and it was shambolic.
Fingers crossed we improve..


Agreed. What Pearson seems to do bettr than many managers is to figure out what a player can do and put him in a spot where he can do it - as opposed to trying to fit players into spots that need filling as ask them to do thing that they can't. Unfortunately, we do have some jobs that need doing - with no obvious people to do them.
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